KARAN

First off, Marley, many congratulations on founding a magazine that’s become beloved by so many in such a short span of time. Would you tell us what was the impulse behind starting a magazine? What made you feel that this was a good idea?

MARLEY

It kind of started out of desperation, to be honest. I was writing a lot during the height of the pandemic in some regressive attempt at making sense of the change in routine and, of course, it was all terrible. I’m not sure the whole “great tragedy makes for great art” sentiment isn’t great BS. Anyway, I was writing and that’s what mattered but I was sending this crap everywhere in a kind of ache to be witnessed; I know now not to take it as personally and be generally less romantic about the process, but facing that kind of constant rejection was hard.

I was still learning how to contend with not being able to finish my creative writing degree, which was this sort of ever-elusive, lifelong dream of mine that was in a four-year state of perpetual counteraction from my disability. I felt like I had to be good at writing because I had to be good at something. My co-founder Rowan was actually getting her degree at the time, and was an editor for her campus magazine; hearing about that process is what gave me the idea to start our own. I knew I couldn’t be the only creative whose disability acted as a barrier to entry into the industry and was desperate to have a space that catered to that disparity. 

KARAN

Will you walk us through what a typical day looks like for you as the editor-in-chief at The Kingfisher Magazine (I love that name, so wanted to say it!)? What are some of the key responsibilities and tasks that fill your days? 

MARLEY

It looks a lot like the scene in a 90s action film where a hacker is typing numbers into a Word document on twin computer screens to demonstrate that they know tech stuff. I feel like my eyes are going to fall out most days. I work a 9-5 and then a 5-8 a.m. but I wouldn’t trade it for the world. I spend most of that time sending emails and taking meetings and creating content and flirting with our printer’s staff to fix minor proof errors. I enjoy the design aspects the most, though. That and buying the Paris Review as “reference material” for “market research.” 

KARAN

You have a background in marketing and design, and it really shows. Y’all are really one of the very very few literary magazines who care about design. Have you noticed this lack of aesthetics in litmags? Was this a concern for you as the founder of a litmag? It has been for us at ONLY POEMS. We care a shit ton about poetry but also almost as much about how it is presented. Do you resonate with that?

MARLEY

I do now, but it started for us as a lack of information. It didn’t occur to me until after we’d published the first issue that most literary magazines didn’t do editorial layouts. I think there is something to be said about allowing the reader imagination of their own. I just love graphic design and rarely get to create the way I want to at work, so it naturally became a central part of the process. We’ve toned it back a lot though; in part, as an accessibility initiative for those who have trouble with written materials but also because it was generally a lot to look at. I think it’s a good thing that we didn’t know too much going in, as counterintuitive as that sounds, we got to play with the format a lot more that way

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KARAN

I’m interested in knowing more about your background. Was your hunger for beauty fed by your life in Southern California? Did it stem from a life there or is it a response to a kind of lack (I’ve no idea about the cultural richness or depravity of the SoCal landscape).

MARLEY

It definitely started as a response to the lack; I was always sort of a brat about where I grew up. Of course that had a lot to do with being an undiagnosed autistic kid whose eyes could — clinically — never adjust to how loud Los Angeles is visually. I spent my entire childhood in my head. I still have a lot of trouble speaking but it doesn’t make me as angry now as it did when I was young. I was this exposed nerve and I didn’t know why and I needed a way to communicate; writing seemed to work. I also grew up pretty poor, living in the cheapest apartments in nice neighborhoods. That hunger for beauty is almost entirely owed to the creativity of my mother; if we had nothing else we were never without a wealth of culture and art. It was always just us girls at a free dance class here or finding cheap opera tickets there. I think she really understood that believing you deserved beauty was half of the battle. I also think the scarcity mindset is what made me care so much about making sure everything I kept around me was rich and had intention. It’s an admittedly confectionery way of life but I don’t see the point in spartanism. I still so want to live somewhere lush, though; we don’t have colors here like the East Coast has. 

KARAN

Your tagline for The Kingfisher Magazine is: “a literary journal for crybabies, notes app poets, & wild, perfect, animals” — how do you define the magazine’s editorial vision and ethos? What core values guide your decision-making process? 

MARLEY

I considered making it something more straightforward like, ‘A magazine for disabled and marginalized creatives’ but I think any creator can relate to feeling too isolated or too lazy or too much.

We named the magazine, The Kingfisher, after a Mary Oliver poem of the same title that sort of teases the fact that humans — especially artists — think so much about what we’re for and how we can improve but, most other animals don’t do that. I like to think that we admire the freedom of animals because we imagine them as incapable of critique or morality, but if the scientists ever found a bird navel-gazing, they’d make it pay taxes.

I want the magazine to feel like a soft spot to remind yourself that you're an animal and whatever you're doing, you’re doing it just the way you were designed to. Generally, the goal is to take the pressure off of creating however we can and that's been our signpost of sorts while figuring this all out.

KARAN

You’re really pushing the boundaries of what a litmag can be by publishing all sorts of art. What is it that made you decide you didn’t want to be restricted to publishing the written word alone?

MARLEY

I think someone just asked, and we figured, “Why not?” There are so many more ways to tell a story than by writing it. In a less philosophical sense, the art helps break up the text too. I 100% stand by the quality of every piece we’ve ever published and the themes we’ve chosen but there are only so many ways to say nature is beautiful in a row before it gets a little tiresome. Having visual art can act as a palette cleanser. It stimulates a different part of the mind. 

KARAN

Community, accessibility, and sustainability seem to be at the heart of what you do and we at ONLY POEMS have so much admiration for that. Would you tell us about the “Third Space”?

MARLEY

Right, so the term “Third Place,” was coined in the 80s by a sociologist named Ray Oldenburg who — in a very literal sense — wrote the book on them. He describes a Third Place as being a free or inexpensive space, with food or drink as an important but nonessential element, being accessible to the community, and having socialization at the core of activity. When I originally pitched the idea for our Third Space event series, I was picturing a total romance: this philosophizing-and-drinking-wine-by-candlelight experience for creatives but it ended up being something much sweeter and more accessible to people who don’t necessarily write but still need a community.

It’s not enough to just go to a park or a bar or a movie anymore. Since the pandemic, people — especially Gen-Z — need to be told, “It’s okay to talk to your neighbor. It’s okay to test out your social skills because it’s safe to make a mistake here.” That’s why we named it Third Space: things are much easier to digest when laid out simply that way. It also helps to have an activity in common or something to keep your hands busy while you’re working through how hard it is to connect with another person. It’s kind of like that trick for getting out of your head when you’re working on a first draft where you write it with your non-dominant hand so it splits your focus and you get less delicate about starting the process. 

KARAN

What are some of the biggest challenges you face in your role, and how do you tackle them? Are there specific hurdles related to your mission or the current industry landscape that you find particularly significant? 

MARLEY

Being a small business owner is hard! Who knew? There also simply isn’t any money in selling magazines in the twenty-first century, which is fine because if I were starting a small business to make a ton of money I wouldn’t be trying to sell magazines. Our community grew so fast, we didn’t have the time to grow with it. It’s still just me and Rowan on the backend of everything running around like chickens with our heads cut off.

In a more personal sense, it’s just always been hard to be Black in the industry and it’s always been hard to be disabled. Things are getting better, but there are still so many parts of the publishing process that weed out marginalized writers, especially if their work doesn’t exploit the struggles of having that identity. It’s hard enough to read a book about an autistic woman, let alone one who lives a happy life and whose neurotype isn’t the central conflict. Being autistic is helpful when it’s just Rowan and me working on the magazine though, in the sense that being brutally honest means we get a lot done much faster, but it also means we burn out much faster and consequently get a lot less done. We’re making progress, however slow. 

KARAN

What are some lessons or insights you’ve gained about the publishing world and the literary community?

MARLEY

I guess I didn’t realize that it was so slow. It’s a lot more editing and re-editing and writing and rewriting than I expected. Like I said earlier too, it’s so much less personal than it feels when you’re just the writer putting your insides on the line. I’ve had to reject some exceptional pieces for things as simple as going over the word count. Being on both sides makes me a much better writer, I think. I’ve also learned there’s almost nothing I’d like to do more than be in the publishing world and literary community for the rest of my life.

KARAN

Instagram reels have played a big role in the success of your magazine. What are your thoughts on that? How do you think the publishing industry and landscape is changing since the rise of social media?

MARLEY

I think the industry’s in such a fun place. On one hand, we’re a perfect example of how social media has helped writers who otherwise may have never been able to get their foot in the door but on the other, I’m not sure it’s not clogging the pores of creativity at the same time. It’s interesting to read submissions every quarter, there are a few key literary influencers who young writers seem to be mimicking and it makes me wonder if William Shawn was pulling his hair out during the Jack Kerouac era. I tease but there’s a lot to love about that too; I especially enjoy how much attention is being awarded to female poets on the internet. I do worry, though. Artists having to market themselves is no sign of the times, but being an influencer? That’s its own beast. It’s strange to think we’re heading in a direction where you have to be seen to write — it’s a very classically hermetic profession.

KARAN

How do you perceive the evolution of The Kingfisher Magazine since its inception? What are your goals moving forward? Are there any upcoming projects, themes, or initiatives that you’re particularly excited about?

MARLEY

I’d love to play catch-up for a bit; grow our team. We’re just as small as a year ago but with a much bigger sense of the world. We want to share and create more resources, really clean up the skills we’ve learned so far. I would love to host some events where our community is! Most of our following are from New York and London so it’d be nice to get to know each other face-to-face.

KARAN

Finally, Marley, what advice would you offer young artists? 

MARLEY

I think the best thing you can do for your work is to live outside of it as much as you can. Every time you feel strange about doing something, do it and report back to your art later. It’s all science. Don’t forget to add contrast to your work and that it will always serve you to be tenderhearted; to be critical but kind, always kind.